Unknown Young Lady
Date & Place:
in Marshall, Missouri USA
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Unknown Young Lady
Updated Mar 10, 2025
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Patricia Rock
375 favorites
07/07/2007
Comments
AncientFaces
380k+ followers 411 favorites
10/05/2015
Based on the clothing when do you think this photo was taken? This young woman’s name has been lost in history. You can help identify this photo by determining potential dates that we can match with the location (Marshall Missouri).
Samuel Blain
18 favorites
10/04/2015
I'm the current Vice President of the Saline County (Mo.) Historical Society; and, for many years have been compiling a biographical dictionary of photographers active in Saline County, Mo. and collecting their images. Have you learned any more about this image?
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Anytime between 1880-1910 is my opening volley
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Good guess, this is my great grand mother, Helen, 1898 Oklahoma, Marty
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Looks like a young girl as the skirt is above the ankles! When I blew up the photo the eyes were not quite right so I agree that it is a death photo!
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I would say 1900s because the skirt is above ankles
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You can see the stand on the bottom of you enlarge. Definitely death photo
Susan Schloss
1 follower 496 favorites
10/06/2015
Linda McLeland Linda McLeland The baby in this photo is sitting in someone's lap (probably it's mother's) , hidden behind a cloth! This was a common practice since the subjects had to be perfectly still for up to ten minutes!
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The skirt length confuses me, however.
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Teen girls wore shorter dresses to denote their age and at 17/18 or so you'd start wearing full length. Just like little boys would always wear short pants
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It donned on me after i posted. Thank you!!
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People, label your photographs!
It's sad when people's identities are lost to history.
It's sad when people's identities are lost to history.
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You cannot say this too often! My mother could tell you off the top of her head who people were,from family members in 1800s, down to students who gave her pictures 40 years previous. She didn't label many, and now she's gone. I have the pictures and I sure wish she had done that!
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Christine Draughon Wantland I am in the same situation. So many old photos, no way to identify.
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Steve, I'm in the same boat. I'm considering posting mine on this site, because searching for photos of my relatives online to compare my pics to isn't progressing quickly or well at all. Good luck with yours.
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Amy McDonald- Waldron and Christine Draughon Wantland
We are now detectives.
I just wanted to nap! ☺
We are now detectives.
I just wanted to nap! ☺
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We have some old pics with writing on the back, "my grandfather, Fredric" and "my uncle George" and such! Who are you that wrote that? And what are their last names?😜
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Shortly before her death, my mother began to label her old photos. Unfortunately she started with her college friends and never got to the family photos before she died. Thank goodness her only surviving sister was able to help me identify them. Her college photos of her friends, except for ones with her in them, were all discarded by family members after her death as they were all strangers to us.
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Except that writing on them often ruins them!
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1870's or 1880's. She looks young. The dark color could mean mourning dress. Also young girls would lower their dress length after entering society. Perhaps that's why it is shorter.
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Someone noticed a stand behind her. This is a death portrait
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No, it's a stand to help her to keep still. Photos back then took a long time. If you moved, your portrait could be ruined!
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Girls wore their dresses short according to age. The older she is the longer the length. Just before they reached "marriageable" age the length was just above the ankle. I'm guessing but the time frame was early 1900's. Her bangs on her forehead puts it about that time.
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She looks like she has a glass eye - right eye.
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It looks like a stand behind her feet. They used these to prop up bodies of the deceased.
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The stand for the deceased is not real. It's only for holding the subject still for the shot!
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This does not appear to be a post mortem photograph. This girl is definitely alive.
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She doesn't look deceased to me either..
Ticia Barnes
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I'm noticing a stand behind the girl. Is it possible this is mortuary photography? It was popular in the late Victorian era. Especially with children.
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Also note the short hair. She looks like she had been ill(hair cut due to fever), she also has a slack jaw so with the stand in the background there are several clues as to this being a mortuary photo. Plus the dress sleeves are too short. So either she had a growth spurt while ill or the clothing is borrowed.
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And i think i detect a smidgen of rope around her waist.
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I've never heard of mortuary photography with the subject upright! Everyone used a head stand to help the person being photographed keep still. The wait time was long, up to several minutes, because it took so long for the primitive chemicals they used to work!
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You may be right but it took so long to take a picture that I think some people used the stand to help keep them still. I'm trying to figure if the hands look natural or posed.
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I think the theory of an illness has merit. It would explain what I consider a weirdness with the bonnet. These photos were meant to be cherished momentos. If she had been ill and died with her haircut short the bonnet would cover it. I've seen both standing and sitting mortuary photos. Also does anyone else see a slight slant to the legs?
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They did not use stands for the dead, it's a myth!
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I have viewed over 100 postmortem photos from the Victorian era. Stands were used often and can be seen in many photos.
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Joy, they absolutely did use stands for the dead.
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You can see the stand in thus photo really well.
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"In all of my years of collecting, I have NEVER seen a dead person (other than a dried out mummy) stood on their feet using only a common photographer's posing stand. This is because such photos *do not exist*. I am not saying that because I am not open minded or have never seen evidence... I am saying it based on my common sense, my knowledge as a long time PM collector and as somebody familiar with the purpose and design of posing stands. As I've said many times before, if you see a standing person with the base of a posing stand at their feet and nothing else supporting them, it's ironclad proof that they were alive, and not dead.
In TRUE "standing" PMs, the person is clearly supported by something more substantial than a flimsy stand. Usually they are supported by a family member(s) or assistant, whether clearly included in the photo with them or hidden behind a blanket. If a dead person is stiff enough to stand upright, they will also look VERY dead.. picture somebody in a coffin that has been stood up on its end, then remove the coffin.. that is what most true “standing” PMs look like. " This is from this post
In TRUE "standing" PMs, the person is clearly supported by something more substantial than a flimsy stand. Usually they are supported by a family member(s) or assistant, whether clearly included in the photo with them or hidden behind a blanket. If a dead person is stiff enough to stand upright, they will also look VERY dead.. picture somebody in a coffin that has been stood up on its end, then remove the coffin.. that is what most true “standing” PMs look like. " This is from this post
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Her skin tone.. color looks too good...
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I wouldn’t have noticed if nothing had been said. You can see the stand behind her, the way her eyes/face look. A lot of telling signs. Honestly I just glanced real quick but then saw this thread && went back to look. This was a popular thing in Victorian Era like y’all had mention. Kind of creepy but interesting at the same time. Some people take pictures at funerals of them in the casket. I know some people who have.
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I think that's a 12 yr. Old boy. I would say around 1910. I've seen other pics where boys were made to cross dress in thatcera. It was considered funny. He doesn't seem to think so.
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Boys back then did not wear dresses! She has her hair put up, under her hat!
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Not a boy. All males, regardless of age wore hair parted to the side. Hair bangs started appearing after 1900 in young women.
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Boys did wear dresses until they were potty trained by the way.
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Did it have a photographers name on the bottom of the picture? I have traced my ancestors through this or have sent for information through Missouri Historical Society to compare photos and stories
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True -- I have traced German photos through the photographers name on the front or back and this will give you atleast give a time frame to work from.
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There is a stand visible behind her feet and her stance is very rigid, I'm pretty sure that the girl is dead and this is a post mortem photograph.
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Those stands were also used for the living! The stands helped people hold a pose when exposure times for photography back then took anywhere from 1-5 minutes. Sometimes even longer! That's why some of the photos from that time are blurry, because no one is ever truly still. Unless they're dead. Or resting on a stand. LOL! :)
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Photographers used a stand or arm rest called a Brady stand to help people stand still long enough for the exposure time. If there's a stand behind a standing person, it's pretty likely the person was alive when the photo was taken. Even a stand can't make a deceased person stand up that straight without some part of the head or body sagging. The idea of using stands and wires to hold up a dead person is a myth.
Clearly, this is Victorian era styles, but the Victorian Era spanned 64 years! My dad was born the same year Queen Victoria died...1901. From what I've seen of old family photographs, this could be from the late 1800s to the very early 1900s. By 1910, the waistline on girls' dresses were lower and the dresses not fitted.
Clearly, this is Victorian era styles, but the Victorian Era spanned 64 years! My dad was born the same year Queen Victoria died...1901. From what I've seen of old family photographs, this could be from the late 1800s to the very early 1900s. By 1910, the waistline on girls' dresses were lower and the dresses not fitted.
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My grandma had a picture of her taken dressed like this...she was born in 1884-she was 17 in the picture so that was about 1901 in Missouri ...so this girl could be a teen ager about the same time period as my grandma.
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No, she's not dead. People reading things in the picture that just aren't there. There is no slack jaw, she has a slightly bent knee, which would unbalance her if she was dead and I see life in her eyes, not a dead look at all. Good luck in figuring out who she is.
Shari Williams 
Terrie Winsor 
Nancy Rutman
5 favorites
10/05/2015
Definitely late 1870s to 1880s. The "apron" style skirt with tiered ruffles is characteristic of the 1870s. No later than 1890, or the sleeves would be puffed.
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This is not postmortem.
That's called a posing stand and they were used to hold peoples' head and necks still for the long exposure times on those old cameras. Long exposure times are also the reason people didn't hold a smile for those old photos.
That's called a posing stand and they were used to hold peoples' head and necks still for the long exposure times on those old cameras. Long exposure times are also the reason people didn't hold a smile for those old photos.
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No.
Not postmortem.
Posing stands were used in most standing portraits.
Not postmortem.
Posing stands were used in most standing portraits.
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Thank you, the stand idea is so crazy people !!!
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Apparently, they were reported to be extremely painful.
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Also the rope idea, can you imagine ? Too funny...
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Yes, some one posted on this thread they saw a rope holding her up as well. Go figure...
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I was lucky enough to get a box of photo's that had been in Grandparent's house closet for over 50 years in Michigan. Some had been written on, some not, some as older or older than this photo. I took them and scanned them and added them to ancestry.com, and then I found the local paper of the area in Tennessee where most of them were from. They posted them in the online paper. Someone on Ancestry.com said, hey I know those people, they are related to me. They told me who they were. The two that did, were my 2nd cousins, who were now 79 and 80 years old . I took them to Tennessee to meet these cousins and they identified many of the pictures. I documented them and their stories as we went along. Then the online newspaper for the area, a lady came forward and said yes I have been the church historian here and she is 92 years old, I know them who they are. So I went to see her too in Tennessee. Those are two of the ways I got many photos identified and met some relatives on the way, learned their stories and expanded mine all because of a picture of an unknown person in a cardboard box that I inherited. And I saved the photos from becoming fodder for the Cracker Barrel wall.
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The photo stand was not used for the dead. Just think about it...it would be impossible to hold them up ! It's a myth, it was used by most photographers to hold their subject still. This young girl looks to be from around 1900 from the style of clothing.
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1880s. By the 1890s, girl's fashion had a more open neck, and more relaxed dress. The layered skirt, the pouch, and the hat are all 1880.
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How do you know this? Can't find much online so far...
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C1890s. Don't think its mourning dress. People did not put names on photographs in those days - why I can't say perhaps they assumed the family knew who was who and did not think of posterity. Most of us with old photgraph albums have this problem.
Kent Clizbe
via Facebook
have to agree, what I still try to get my head around, that you are posing a dead body, to stand, be easier to sit it. Cos the body weight etc heavier, than when alive, it would make it quite awkward. But as has been said in earlier comments common practice in Victorian era to do this
Teresa Holley
via Facebook
This person was dead at the time of this picture you could see the stand behind her feet......and her hand is a bit stif, her nails are getting dark as well as her eyes, you can imagine the stand holding her from the neck and her waist as it looks a bit tight to her waist.....
Peter J. Cobb
1 follower 82 favorites
10/06/2015
If its a post Cabinet Card photo, It's around 1905-1910
Peter J. Cobb
1 follower 82 favorites
10/06/2015
If It's a Cabinet Card, where is the photo studio name at the bottom, and the style of writing of the said name? I could make a better guess it that information was included.
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The style is too female. It should be a teenage girl, not a boy. Boy's dresses looked different, much more simplistic.
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Saw several fashion pages for +- 1880s. The rounded volant style seems more early. Also the decoration on the hat. How about 1873?
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I don't think this is an old photo if you take a close look at the background you will notice that the window Curtiss and pillow are not real they are an image, also this young girl has cut fringe this also was not done in the day lady's and young children's hair was pulls back no strait cuts, though I think it may be an old photo I believe it to be a dress photo as we do today I could be wrong if I am I apologise
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It was quite common for photographic studios to have painted backgrounds in the Victorian era. I have photographs of my great great grandmother taken standing leaning on a 'fence' with painted floral scenery behind her. Her engagement photograph depicted her and my great great grandfather (taken a few years later) with the same background but with her seated on a bench but with real plants surrounding them. These were 1902 & 1906 :)
Filipe Medeiros
3 followers 212 favorites
10/07/2015
So interesting how the photo backdrops began so long ago.
Lulu Almassalha
N Hertel
3 followers 154 favorites
11/02/2015
To begin with, she's wearing her riding outfit - horse riding.
Desiree' Erhart
1 follower 34 favorites
12/12/2015
It looks from the time between 1870's to 1890's. It is just a guess. Was there a studio name on the photo? That may help locate where the photo was taken somehow.
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Children have always been fidgets... I feel the stand was used for stability and to keep the long exposure of box slide camera type from being blurry... As you notice in her left eye(right facing you)... Often the eyes were drawn in because they were blurred by blinking. I feel if you narrow down the photo process... You'll narrow down her period in time... We will only know all the answers once we slip the veil that separates this life from the next...
Heather Brennan 
Ree Young
1 follower 234 favorites
03/27/2018
Posing stands were commonly used for living people, especially in a standing position. It isn't easy to stand perfectly still for the longer time it took to get the exposure.
Photographs were expensive, and ruining one because of a blur from even a slight movement was a waste of money and time. The blank stare and rigid posture was completely usual in photos of living people.
It is also a fact that I've researched that posing stands were NOT used to stand dead people up. The dead were not posed standing upright.
Why would you think her hair is short? Girls and women often had their hair put up in the back. And bangs were not an uncommon style either.
As far as the dark dress, it could have been navy blue, dark red, medium to dark green or a shade of brown. A dark color in an old photo is in not a reliable way of judging that it must be black.
Photographs were expensive, and ruining one because of a blur from even a slight movement was a waste of money and time. The blank stare and rigid posture was completely usual in photos of living people.
It is also a fact that I've researched that posing stands were NOT used to stand dead people up. The dead were not posed standing upright.
Why would you think her hair is short? Girls and women often had their hair put up in the back. And bangs were not an uncommon style either.
As far as the dark dress, it could have been navy blue, dark red, medium to dark green or a shade of brown. A dark color in an old photo is in not a reliable way of judging that it must be black.
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Peter J. Cobb
I was born in 1958
When I was younger, I had parents. I grew up with two older brothers and two sisters. Now I am older and non the wiser.
When I was younger, I had parents. I grew up with two older brothers and two sisters. Now I am older and non the wiser.
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